Please note: This is an extract from Hansard only. Hansard extracts are reproduced with permission from the Parliament of Tasmania.

STATE SERVICE (SAVINGS AND TRANSITIONAL PROVISIONS) BILL 2000 (No. 92)

Second Reading

Mr JIM BACON (Denison - Premier - 2R) - Mr Deputy Speaker, I move -

That the bill be now read the second time.

Mr Deputy Speaker, the State Service (Savings and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2000 results from the development and introduction of the State Service Bill 2000 which, for reasons of simplicity and clarity, I will refer to as the principal act. The State Service (Savings and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2000 will provide a smooth transition from the Tasmanian State Service Act 1984 to the principal act, without favour or disadvantage to employees, by ensuring that employment rights and obligations are retained.

The bill will also enable certain administrative procedures commenced under the Tasmanian State Service Act 1984 to continue under the principal act. This, for example, will ensure that vacancies in the process of being filled will be able to be finalised. Similarly, any standing orders in place under the Tasmanian State Service Act 1984 will remain in force under the principal act. Other administrative and management tools such as employment registers established under the Tasmanian State Service Act 1984 will also be maintained. Importantly, the bill provides for people who are employed now under the Tasmanian State Service Act 1984 to continue to be employed under the principal act.

In line with the change in terminology in the principal act, temporary employees under the Tasmanian State Service Act 1984 will be known as 'fixed-term employees'. There are two main exceptions to this:

Schedule 1 of the bill provides for certain classes of temporary employees to become permanent employees. These are employees previously exempted from many of the provisions of the Tasmanian State Service Act 1984 but whose employment has been, for all intents and purposes, permanent employment. The majority of these employees are school attendants in the Department of Education, while others include farm hands and tradespersons employed in the Department of Primary Industries, Water and the Environment.

Schedule 2 of the bill provides for certain public sector employees to become employees appointed under the principal act as officers, fixed-term or permanent employees. These include people previously appointed under other legislation such as the Tasmanian Development Act 1983, the TAFE Tasmania Act 1997, the Emergency Services Act 1976, the Tourism Tasmania Act 1996, and Port Arthur Historic Management Authority employees appointed under the Government Business Enterprises Act 1995. This will enable greater consistency of employment conditions for many public sector employees where the nature of their employment is such that it is dealt with more appropriately under the bill.

The bill will also provide for the current Commissioner for Public Employment to become the State Service Commissioner and complete actions being dealt with by the Commissioner for Public Employment and the Commissioner for Review under the Tasmanian State Service Act 1984. In particular, the bill will ensure that any procedures already under way at the time of the commencement of the principal act regarding an appeal, an inability inquiry or a disciplinary inquiry are not compromised or hindered in any way and that they can be carried through to conclusion.

In summary, the State Service (Savings and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2000 will ensure that employee rights and responsibilities are retained and that the administration and management of the State Service will continue smoothly and without interruption. Mr Deputy Speaker, I commend the bill to the House.

Mr GROOM (Denison) - Mr Deputy Speaker, the Opposition obviously support this bill. As the Premier has said, it does ensure the sensible, reasonable, efficient transition into the new arrangements set out in the bill that we have just debated in that curtailed debate we had on the State Service Bill that has just concluded.

Obviously this is the normal procedure that will apply when you have a bill which rescinds previous legislation because that means that all of the office holders and all of the details contained in the earlier act no longer apply and so you have this situation where, for example, the Commissioner for Public Employment would not continue to be the Commissioner for Public Employment because that position had been abolished as a direct result of the recission of the previous legislation and it is similar with contracts. Certain decisions and determinations also have to continue in force and certain positions have to remain: heads of agency, classification standards and procedures and of course government departments, which is quite basic, prescribed officers, senior executives, standing orders, and of course there are provisions relating to employees, the duties of employees, procedures for filling vacancies, determinations under section 37(1) of the repealed act and so on.

As I say, there is nothing particularly unusual about this particular bill; it is quite a common one when we have a major piece of legislation of this kind which rescinds earlier arrangements. It is important to ensure that no employees of the State Service lose any rights or obligations. Their obligations must continue. The duties of the Commissioner for Public Employment and Commissioner for Review also must continue.

I note under clause 4 there is reference to the Commissioner for Public Employment which provides:

'The person holding office as Commissioner for Public Employment immediately before the commencement of the Principal Act is taken to have been appointed as State Service Commissioner under that Act for the remainder of the period specified in his or her instrument of appointment as Commissioner for Public Employment.'

So that person holding that position continues on and becomes the State Service Commissioner under the principal act - the principal act being the State Service Act 2000. I am not sure what then happens with the position of Commissioner for Review but perhaps that can be explained by the Premier.

It is also important to ensure that any procedures under way at the time of the commencement of the principal act or any actions taken after the commencement of the principal act regarding a review of action and inquiry into inability or an inquiry into an offence are not compromised or hindered in any way. I do not know what inquiries there are under way or reviews of that kind under way at the present time. Again, perhaps we could have some details about how extensive that might be. I would gather there would probably be very few of those under way.

Certain classes of temporary employees referred to in Schedule 1 of the bill shall be made permanent employees, and this is an interesting one - here in Schedule 1:

'A person employed in the Department of Education, immediately before the commencement of the Principal Act, pursuant to -

(a) the Miscellaneous Workers (Public Sector)Award; or

(b) the Metal Trades (State Employees) Award; or

(c) the Electrical/Electronic Trades (Public Sector) Award; or

d) the TAFE Tasmanian Building Trades Industrial Agreement 1998; or

(e) the Building Trades (Tasmanian Public Sector) 2nd Tier and Interim Wages and Conditions Supplementary Agreement No. 1 of 1990.'

This is under section 17.

Mr Best - Is this a second reading speech or are you going to go through the clauses?

Mr GROOM - I would like to know whether in fact these are people who are being made permanent employees. They are - I am trying to understand it. And also:

'2. A person employed in the Department of Primary Industries, Water and Environment, immediately before the commencement of the Principal Act, pursuant to the Australian Workers Union (Tasmania Public Sector) Award 1996.'

and 3 - I know the members would understand this, they have read this.

Mr Best - In great detail. Which clause did you want me to recite?

Mr GROOM - I fully appreciate that. This is Schedule 1, as you know. I would not need to refer the number to you; I am sure you know this. You would recall it.

'A person employed in the Department of Infrastructure, Energy and Resources, immediately before the commencement of the Principal Act, pursuant to

(a) the Miscellaneous Workers (Public Sector) Award; or

(b) the Electrical/Electronic Trades (Public Sector) Award.

I would like to know who is missing out.

Mrs Swan - So would I.

Mr GROOM - This is an interesting one that has popped up in this one but I would like to know just what the basis for this -

Mr Jim Bacon - They were precluded from being in it previously. We are putting them in.

Mr GROOM - You are putting them in? If we could get some details about -

Mr Jim Bacon - It's an anomaly which has been ridiculous. It is an anomaly which has been there for years.

Mr GROOM - I am not aware of that but I accept your word for that. I would like to know just how many people are involved here. I am not able to object to it at all and probably it is the right step; I do not know but how many others are missing out, not getting this upgrading, if you like, to permanent employment. It can be quite a significant step for certain specified people and my colleague, Mrs Swan, no doubt will have further things to say to that but it is a most interesting part of that particular bill and also it is important that certain persons as indicated in Schedule 2 of the bill shall become employees appointed under the principal act as officers fixed-term or permanent employees.

Mr Best - Which page are we on now?

Mr GROOM - That is Schedule 2 of the bill and of course that is on page 16. And these are officers.

Mr Hidding - Why would you make your executive officer in Canberra an officer appointed to a high-profile job, an executive manager of the Technopark? You can flick him any time, one of your fixed-term employees.

Mr GROOM - So the person employed or engaged under section 36(2) of the TAFE Tasmania Act 1997 becomes a fixed-term employee and then certain persons are officers: Assistant General Manager Administration; Chief Finance Officer under the Tasmanian Development Act 1993 and other officers under that act - they are officers, are they?

Mr Hidding - That's right.

Mr GROOM - Then you have fixed-term employees, people under the Tasmanian Development Act. There are a whole host of different categories here in this bill providing for permanent employment. For example: 'A person employed or engaged under section 23(2) of the Tourism Tasmania Act 1996 other than persons specified in item 7 or 8' becomes a 'permanent employee' - and so on. Some of these were referred to by the Premier in his second reading speech on the earlier bill.

It is interesting to read that list and we will need to analyse that. We agree there is not time to go through all the details of that. But as I say, this is quite the normal procedure; the detail is something that we would like to question the Premier about so that we fully understand exactly what is contained in this bill, so we fully understand the implications of the actions he is taking. This is the trouble when you start to debate these matters well into the night and later than we understood we would be adjourning; it is an unfortunate thing because we do need to get to the bottom of these bills and understand exactly what the Government is intending to do with these measures.

Mrs SWAN (Lyons) - At first sight of course this appears to be just the regular set of savings provisions to enable the easy transition from the Tasmanian State Service Act 1984 to the legislation we see in front of us. It does traditional things quite clearly with regard to making sure that employment conditions and rights are retained so that people who were employed under that act continued to be employed under the new act. It looks at the maintenance of employment registers; it looks at the process of maintaining the procedures that apply to the process of filling vacancies. It generally deals with those matters that may come under question when we in fact move from one set of legislation to the other. So it seems at first sight to simply provide that.

The interesting term of course is in the speech that relates to the change of terminology in the principal act which relates to temporary employees. These of course under the current legislation will become fixed-term employees. However there are two main exceptions and they are contained in Schedules 1 and 2 of the bill. This looks very much to me like the agreement that travels all the way back to the election. I will be interested to hear the comments of the Premier when he responds to these speeches as to the reason for the specifics that are contained in Schedules 1 and 2. They seem on some inspection to relate quite definitely. We have to remember when we look at this one that these people contained in Schedule 1 will not be the people who become fixed-term employees after having been temporary employees. And the Premier has indicated quite clearly to us that the Government have a view with regard to temporary employment and their intention clearly is to move everybody who sits within that category into the new category. It would appear that of the fixed-term employees, however, there are two exceptions of course and they are the exceptions that are contained within Schedules 1 and 2 and they are indeed interesting to read.

I guess other than going through this list the thing that would be of great interest to us, given that you profess a philosophy with regard to the movement of temporary employment into a further category which you indicate would be fixed-term employment, except for those that will become permanent and they are the people who travel under Schedules 1 and 2. How many other people may be involved in the process of not fitting within Schedules 1 and 2? Are there other people inside the arrangements who are left out all together? Are these all the exceptions? Do they cover all of the people who should move from temporary to another category? It would seem that on the speech there are a number who will move from temporary to fixed-term so we would be particularly interested in knowing the numbers of people who will move from temporary to fixed-term and those who will move from temporary to permanent. We know quite clearly that those who will move from temporary to permanent are first of all contained under Schedule 1 - and they will be a person employed in the Department of Education immediately before the commencement of the principal act - pursuant to certain awards. They are the Miscellaneous Workers Public Sector Award or the Metal Trade (State Employees) Award or the Electrical/Electronic Trades (Public Sector) Award or the TAFE Tasmania Building Trades Industrial Agreement 1998 or the Building Trades (Tasmanian Public Sector) 2nd Tier and Interim Wages and Conditions Supplementary Agreement No 1 of 1990.

In clause 2 we understand that persons employed in the Department of Primary Industries, Water and Environment immediately before the commencement of the principal act are pursuant to the Australian Workers Union (Tasmanian Public Sector) Award 1996. Or 3, a person employed in the Department of Infrastructure, Energy and Resources before the commencement of the principal act pursuant to the Miscellaneous Workers (Public Sector) Award or the Electrical Electronic Trades (Public Sector) Award.

Those people clearly have different provisions relating to them. It seems to smack of the original agreement that seemed to be struck at the time of the election. We would like to know a great deal more about this one and who is excluded from these provisions, whether indeed -

Mr Jim Bacon - What one?

Mrs SWAN - there are many that now simply transfer from temporary to fixed term, how many people are involved in that and how contained the provisions are. It may well be an anomaly. The Premier indicated to us that this was an anomalous situation that he was seeking to rectify and we would be interested in hearing what the anomaly was, what the basis for the arrangement is and why there are certain people who would appear to be travelling to the classification of fixed term rather than permanent. It would seem at first sight to be somewhat worrying and I would be most interested in hearing who those people are.

Mr Jim Bacon - Because that is how they are employed now. I want everyone to stay the same.

Mrs SWAN - Well, the interest is in who is getting left out, I guess - that is the question, and while you -

Mr Jim Bacon - Those are appropriately fixed term.

Mrs SWAN - That is fine. As I say, you are indicating over there that there is an anomaly that you wish to cure and that will be done by Schedule 1. Schedule 2, we understand we had the provisions of Schedule 2 explained to us and they are of course the matters that are pertinent to certain GBEs, certain statutory or State authorities where there is a movement of personnel backwards and forwards as they are re-categorised and there will be a need to provide for them under the savings provisions, but the interest that we have on this side is who misses out with regard to the people who are moving from temporary to fixed term. We certainly know who is moving from temporary to permanent, so I will be most interested to hear the Premier's answer with regard to that. In all other respects we acknowledge it to be the provisions that would normally relate to savings arrangements and I do understand Schedule 2, I believe, on the basis of the information that we have been given. So I will look forward to the response.

Mr HIDDING (Lyons) - Just a brief contribution here to add to the very good contributions from the two people beforehand. I do want to explore with the Premier why Schedule 2 appears to contain only people, or mostly, other than TAFE - people employed in his agencies. Is that just a quirk of fate that these appear to be the agencies that require special definition of fixed-term employee or officer? I take it you are the minister for the Port Arthur Historic Site?

Mr Jim Bacon - That is right.

Mr HIDDING - You are as well? So we have TDR, State Development which includes all Screen Tasmania and Small Business Programs - more State Development, Tourism Tasmania Act and then Port Arthur Historic Site management. I mean, it just begs the question that when you look at a schedule like that, what about Transport when you have so many -

Mr Jim Bacon - That is what we debated in the previous bill about those organisations.

Mr HIDDING - when you have so many engineers in Transport employed as - you know, a number of officers and a number of fixed term and numbers as permanent employees. There is probably a logical explanation, I will look forward to it but it is not a obvious for me to look at this and to figure out why, for instance, the Chief Human Resources Officer for State Development which, while it is a responsible position, is hardly a head of agency sort of position but then you look at Manager of Special Projects, the Manager of TechnoPark, Manager of Screen Tasmania, and Manager of Marketing Events - very important jobs. Is the delineation between officer and fixed-term appointment the band of employment; is it the level of money that you are paying this person; is there a figure - is it $75 000 that makes them an officer and $67 000 that makes them a fixed-term employee? What is it that would delineate this? I would have thought this is a fairly sensitive subject amongst -

Mr Best - It's all in here, you're got to read it though.

Mr HIDDING - I would have thought that makes that a fairly sensitive subject amongst the more senior echelons of the public service where you have people who say, 'Well, when this goes through, I will be an officer' and someone will be saying, 'Well, for goodness' sake, I'm on much the same sort of money, what makes me a fixed-term employee and you an officer?' What is the delineation of this? I think the minister should point out why Schedule 2 is almost entirely - except for the very first one, TAFE - all his agencies. I do not suppose the minister here said, 'Well, look let's deal with my people and stitch that up'. What has happened to Transport, what has happened to Health?

Mr Jim Bacon - Because if you remember the previous bill, it is these areas -

Mr HIDDING - When we were cut short in our prime.

Mr Jim Bacon - You didn't bother talking about this during that bill.

Mr HIDDING - I was ready to do that about nine o'clock tonight but, you know.

Mr Jim Bacon - And there probably still will be. I referred in the second reading speech -

Mr HIDDING - It is a genuine matter that I think you could place on the record for us how these delineations occur and where they have been designed and just where they fit. It is something that I know many people will be talking to us about after this and we will want a decent answer for it.

Mr JIM BACON (Denison - Premier) - Mr Deputy Speaker, I thank members for their support for this legislation and their clear understanding of parts of it - not all of it. This is standard savings-and-transitional provisions for a bill to ensure substantially that the status quo moves forward under the new legislation.

There are some complicating factors in this, complicating not in the extent that they are dreadfully complex but they are outside the normal savings and transitional provisions perhaps and that is two things. One is there are those organisations which just happen to be in my portfolio responsibilities that were established under the TDA Act 1983, the Tourism Tasmania Act which I think, Ray, was it 1996 or 1997 or something like that?

Mr Groom - Probably 1996.

Mr JIM BACON - The Port Arthur Historic Site Management Authority - it just so happens that those are within my portfolio. It is the fact that they were previously employing people under those acts and had various people employed for instance in TDR under contracts and they are now coming under the State Service legislation, so there is a need to transfer them to a position within that.

Under the bill that we, half an hour ago, passed there are a limited number of different categories. What we are doing essentially is reducing the number of categories of employment in the State Service so, rather than having a whole mixture of different employment categories, they are being translated across under the new act as the schedules outlined.

With the other complicating factors, complicating such as it is, in relation to those who are being made permanent, there has been an exemption in the previous State Service legislation which prevented those people from becoming permanent employees and I know this very well as an ex-building union official that there were people who used to work, for instance, in the old Department of Housing, Department of Construction, Department of Main Roads, some of whom had been employed for in excess of twenty years who were prevented from becoming permanent employees and getting the same benefits, rights, entitlements as the vast majority of people in the State Service. Introducing this new legislative framework gives us the opportunity to fix that up and we are very glad to. There are around 800 of those employees remaining - 800 remaining of those that you did not get to sack during the 1990s. There are 800 of them remaining and we think it is appropriate that they be -

Mrs Swan - They conveniently also get more award under a union. Schedule 1 is an interesting list. No-one can pretend otherwise.

Mr Hidding - They must have actually been doing something amidst all of this.

Mr JIM BACON - Well, I agree but that does not alter the fact that those persons were employed under a general contract of service under the repealed act and they will be employed as permanent employees. It may well be an odd list but nevertheless that is the list that describes them. For instance, the cleaners in schools, or school attendants as they are called now. This has been going on for donkeys years and some of them have been employed there for - people had long service leave and it is ridiculous that they are not classed as permanent employees. So, strange as any member might think the list, it is an accurate capsule description of the people who have been prevented from being made permanent employees for no good reason. They will be employed as permanent employees under the new act.
The other matter Mr Hidding raised - there are about 800 of those under Schedule 1 who will be made permanent.

The member for Denison, Mr Groom, asked about the Commissioner for Review and what was going to happen there. The Commissioner for Review's position is currently filled in an acting capacity by Iain Frawley. He will be transferred to the State Service Commissioner's office. So he will continue in employment.

With Schedule 2, all I can say to explain it further, and I understand that it has been explained in the briefing that was provided to at least the two members who had the briefing, and I accept that not all members did -

Mr Groom - We didn't go through the schedules.

Mr JIM BACON - Well, that does not matter. The bill was explained. But with Schedule 2, the new category depends on the nature of their current appointment. Future appointments, of course, will be in accordance with the new provisions and the purpose of the schedule is to provide transitions into the State Service. Fixed term equates to what is currently called temporary employment. Therefore we are maintaining the status quo unless the specific provisions of Schedule 1 or 2 apply. Other eligible temporary employments will be considered for conversion under normal provisions.

I think Mrs Swan wanted to know how many would be left out.

Mrs Swan - How many are not covered - how many will not travel from fixed term to permanent? In other words, I am sorry, they will go from temporary to fixed term. How many will not go from temporary to permanent?

Mr JIM BACON - I have a bit of paper that I read from before with the numbers and if you take away 800 off the fixed term then you will get to the - currently we have, on a head count, 6 659 temporary who will become fixed term, less 800 who are covered by the schedule, so you are left with around 5 850 who will be fixed-term employment, apart from those whom we may convert to permanent if conditions and circumstances allow. There are others, as we have discussed during this debate on this and the previous bill, who are rightly employed for fixed term or for a specific task because that is the reason for their employment.

I think it is important to point out that this has been a bugbear in the public service in Tasmania for very many years, that there had been these people who have worked in the public sector for fifteen, twenty years and have not been deemed as being permanent, so have not had the same rights and entitlements as permanent employees and up until recently were prevented from having superannuation and all sorts of conditions. Gradually over time that has been rectified and we really do see this as a very substantial step forward and the virtual end of this bizarre situation of having people employed for many years but still being called temporary all the time. So we are eliminating that discrimination against those people and I think I have responded to the points that were raised, Mr Deputy Speaker.

Bill read the second time.